UPDATE 2 - Clinton backers behind deceptive robo-calls aimed at blacks

A story breaking this morning from the respected Institute for Southern Studies has found that a Washington D.C. interest group, Women's Voices. Women Vote. is the organization behind deceptive robo-calls in North Carolina designed to confuse, and, ultimately, disenfranchise, African-American voters.

D.C. nonprofit aimed at women voters behind deceptive N.C. robo-calls

Who's behind the mysterious "robo-calls" that have spread misleading voter information and sown confusion and frustration among North Carolina residents over the last week?

Facing South has confirmed the source of the calls, and the mastermind is Women's Voices Women Vote, a D.C.-based nonprofit which aims to boost voting among "unmarried women voters."

What's more, Facing South has learned that the firestorm Women's Voices has ignited in North Carolina isn't the group's first brush with controversy. Women's Voices' questionable tactics have spawned thousands of voter complaints in at least 11 states and brought harsh condemnation from some election officials for their secrecy, misleading nature and likely violations of election law.

So what are they doing (not only in North Carolina, but, apparently, in 11 previous states, as well):

First, a quick recap: As we covered yesterday, N.C. residents have reported receiving peculiar automated calls from someone claiming to be "Lamont Williams." The caller says that a "voter registration packet" is coming in the mail, and the recipient can sign it and mail it back to be registered to vote. No other information is provided.

The call is deceptive because the deadline has already passed for mail-in registrations for North Carolina's May 6 primary. Also, many who have received the calls -- like Kevin Farmer in Durham, who made a tape of the call that is available here -- are already registered. The call's suggestion that they're not registered has caused widespread confusion and drawn hundreds of complaints, including many from African-American voters who received the calls.

The calls are also probably illegal. Farmer and others have told Facing South the calls use a blocked phone number and provided no contact information -- a violation of North Carolina rules regulating "robo-calls" (N.C. General Statute 163-104(b)(1)c). N.C. Attorney General Roy Cooper further stated in a recent memo that the identifying information must be clear enough to allow the recipient to "complain or seek redress" -- something not included in the calls.

It is also a Class I felony in North Carolina "to misrepresent the law to the public through mass mailing or any other means of communication where the intent and the effect is to intimidate or discourage potential voters from exercising their lawful right to vote."

...

Facing South then contacted Women's Voices, and staffer Sarah Johnson confirmed they were doing similar robo-calls in North Carolina; they later admitted that they were the ones behind the deceptive "Lamont Williams" calls.

And who do the leaders of this D.C.-based organization support?

Some have also questioned the ties between Women's Voices operatives and Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton. (WVWV President) Gardner, for example, contributed $2,500 to Clinton's HILLPAC on May 4, 2006, and in March 2005 she donated a total of $4,200 to Clinton, according to The Center for Responsive Politics' OpenSecrets.org. She has not contributed to the Obama campaign, according to the database.

Women's Voices Executive Director Joe Goode worked for Bill Clinton's election campaign in 1992 as a pollster; the group's website says he was intimately involved in "development and implementation of all polling and focus groups done for the presidential primary and general election campaigns" for Clinton.

Women's Voices board member John Podesta, former Chief of Staff for President Bill Clinton, donated $2,300 to Hillary Clinton on April 19, 2007, according to OpenSecrets.org. Podesta also donated $1,000 to Barack Obama in July 2004, but that was well before Obama announced his candidacy for president.

The piece documents similar efforts to disenfranchise African-American voters through deceptive calls in previous primary states.

And Bill Clinton and the Clinton campaign and its surrogates and supporters want to claim that the Obama campaign is "playing the race card?"

While Clinton backers are trying to disenfranchise black voters?

This story has the potential to cause serious harm to Clinton's campaign, both among voters and among superdelegates.

Update [2008-4-30 13:28:15 by Bob Johnson]:

Maggie Williams recently on WVWV Leadership Team

Clinton campaign manager, Maggie Williams, was on the Leadership Team of Women's Voices. Women Vote, up until very recently.

Google cache of organization board page:

Maggie Williams

UPDATE 2 Update [2008-4-30 14:7:13 by Bob Johnson]:

Ha! They pulled this diary from the top of the rec list! Hey, Jerome, what is wrong with this piece? Hilarious...

Display:


Can't win a fair fight? (1.46 / 15)

Cheat.

The Clintons really have spent too much time in Bushland.


by BlueinColorado on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:43:49 PM EST

Surpise, Surprise, Surprise (2.00 / 1)

I'm SHOCKED!!

I'm SHOCKED!!

This doesn't sound like the Clintons, at all!

PS - I'm hosting a house party for the Hillary-O'Reilly Slugfest.  I'm sure she's going to knock his lights out!


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:29:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Surpise, Surprise, Surprise (2.00 / 1)

SCANDAL!!!

Call Olbermann!, Call Chris Matthews!, Where's Rachel Maddow??  Get Tim Russert on the line!  

. . . Got to gET thIS iNTO tHE mAINSTREAM mEDIA.

oh well (took my chill pill), it'll all be solved after May 6, when Hillary takes IN by double digits and eeks out a win in NC . . . whew! that was a close one.


by wasanyonehurt on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:46:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What about CNN (none / 0)

Does anyone watch CNN anymore?


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:51:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What about CNN (2.00 / 1)

Oh that's right - EMAIL JACK CAFFERTY NOW!


by wasanyonehurt on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:54:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Surpise, Surprise, Surprise (none / 0)

This remarkable showing would put Clinton back into contention, but obviously would not end the contest.


Unable to rec or rate
Still supporting Obama
Still not putting up with "preening" posts
by jaiwithani on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:51:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Surpise, Surprise, Surprise (none / 0)

PS - I'm hosting a house party for the Hillary-O'Reilly Slugfest.
More power to you.  Nothing could make we watch loofah-boy, not even if HRC was going to kick him in the groin in prime time.  Can't watch him; just can't.  (I would watch the loop on YouTube, though.)


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 05:07:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't win a fair fight? (1.50 / 2)

Apparently not from Camp Obama.

...always going in the gutter to make false claims and playing the race card as this diary shows.

Is a shame.

Obama himself acknowledges his dirty negative campaign, but decides to stay in the gutter.

When this is all done, the one thing that won't be associated with Obama is honesty.


by LindaSFNM on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:42:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't win a fair fight? (2.00 / 3)

Did you read the story? Do you have even a shadow of a ghost of a clue what is going on here?

I kinda doubt it.


by BlueinColorado on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:43:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lalalalalalalala (2.00 / 3)

CANT HEAR YOU, HILLARY AND EVERYONE WHO SUPPORTS HER ARE PERFECT


by grass on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:48:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't win a fair fight? (none / 0)

I read the story, and since I have worked on voter registrations drives for the NAACP in the past I might have a clue about what is going on here.

Some Obama supporters are using confusion around a general election voter registration drive focused on unmarried women to make claims that Hillary Clinton is trying to suppress the African American vote in North Carolina. You regularly see these "voter confusion" and "election fraud" complaints around NAACP drives, it is a crappy Republican tactic designed to harm the NAACP. I have a hard time believing the Obama campaign itself would be this self-destructive, but their history in this campaign  gives me pause. Someone with an interest is pushing this story hard to the political press, and I doubt it is the Clinton campaign. If it is the Republicans pushing the story to sow division I would expect to see the Obama campaign try to shut it down.  


by souvarine on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 02:02:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't win a fair fight? (2.00 / 2)

Who would be dumb enough to consistently run general election registration drives in the middle of primaries, after being repeatedly taken to task publicly on the confusion being generated?


by Adam B on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 02:13:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

anything to distract (2.00 / 5)

from the reverend! a non-profit that has no actual affiliation to the Clinton campaign may have made robo calls. Is there a recording of these calls to prove the allegations being made?

Obama: "Let's blame it on Clinton to piss off enough black voters so that we may improve our piss poor internal polls. Chewbacca!"


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:44:05 PM EST

Re: anything to distract (1.92 / 13)

Did you go to the site? Check it out; this is a real story affecting voters, unlike, say, Wright.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:45:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I got new for you, owl... (1.75 / 16)

This is despicable. And it it is serious. You can continue to talk about Wright. I certainly don;t care. But an organized effort to disenfranchise African-American voters on the part of people sympathetic to Clinton will not go over well among Democrats and, particularly, superdelegates.

Desperation is, indeed, an ugly thing.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:47:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There's a clear precedent (2.00 / 7)

in her campaign's efforts to disenfranchise Iowa student voters based on their state of origin, and with their attempts to shut down Nevada union caucuses (that ironically ended up voting heavily for her).

Clinton's campaign is not averse to some good old-fashioned voter suppression. Their allied 527s obviously aren't any better.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:49:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There's a clear precedent (none / 0)

Sort of like opposing a revote in Florida and Michigan.  


by steveinohio on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:41:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sure. (2.00 / 2)

The DNC penalizing MI and FL for breaking the DNC's rules on primaries is

exactly the same thing

as illegal, felony-level illegal, robocalls intended to suppress minority voter turnout in an upcoming primary.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:56:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There's a clear precedent (2.00 / 1)

No, not at all sort of. Obama didn't go into Florida and Michigan and try to get certain votes to not count. The DNC with Hillary and Obama's blessing said none of the votes cast would count. Not at all the same. And pretty insulting to compare this possibly felonious action with upholding rules agreed to by all before the primaries began.


Senator Obama will be formally nominated on August 28, 2008 - the 45th Anniversary of Dr. King's "I Have A Dream Speech."
by brimur on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 02:00:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I love it when... (2.00 / 1)

people who live outside of MI use my state as a political hackey-sack.  Not.


Check out McCain.
by you like it on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 03:50:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I got new for you, owl... (none / 0)

So is hyperbole. I'll believe it when it is reported by an unbiased source.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:49:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I got new for you, owl... (2.00 / 6)

Reality has a known Obama bias. Go to the institutes site:
http://southernstudies.org/facingsouth/

And give it a read. If you don't trust the source, well:


Since our founding in 1970 by veterans of the civil rights movement, the Institute for Southern Studies has established a national reputation as an essential resource for grassroots activists, community leaders, scholars, policy makers and others working to bring lasting social and economic change to the region.

The Institute draws attention to the national importance of the South and offers an exciting vision of the region-a place brimming with a capacity for progressive change that challenges its reputation as a monolithic, conservative stronghold.

Throughout our history, the Institute has maintained a strong commitment to developing research and publication projects that directly support grassroots organizing, especially efforts for corporate and government accountability. It has also led the Institute to be involved in the launching of such organizations as the Brown Lung Association, Southerners for Economic justice, the Georgia Power Project, and the Gulf Tenants Leadership Development Project. The Institute has also examined the southern contribution to culture and social change, from gospel music and the blues to the civil rights movement and community organizing.

Since 1973, the Institute's journal, Southern Exposure, has gained critical praise for its thorough investigations, unsentimental portraits of Southern life, and resources for change. From our first issue on the military in the South through our special book-length issue on the Klan, economic development, the nuclear industry, and regional theater, the magazine has remained in high demand among organizers and trainers. Many back issues are now considered standard resource for classrooms and workshops, and issues on the civil rights movement, Native Americans, prisons, folk life, schools, and the poultry industry are out of print.

Over 30 years later, the Institute retains our unique place in the movement to build a better South. The Institute now hosts several research and education programs; is home to several sponsored projects; and continues to publish Southern Exposure.

Combining information power with people power, another South is possible!


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:53:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are you saying the Institute for Southern Studies (2.00 / 7)

... has some kind of secret agenda?

Go read the piece. They have it nailed. This is a big story. John Podesta is on their board.

What did he know about these calls (documented in 11 states)?


by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:53:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Awwww... (2.00 / 1)

you are astroturfing a scandal. precious. Funny how the Obama campaign didn't say anything about any of this until the eve of the NC vote. Would it have anything to do with the large population of black voters that it needs to win in NC? YUP!!!


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:56:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Of course (2.00 / 6)

it could also be that this is a breaking story because the facts have just now come to light.

Just a thought.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:00:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of course (none / 0)

oh what timing!


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:02:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of course (2.00 / 4)

Don't. Stop. Believing. Hold on to your deeeaaammms...

Journey took out the line "Despite Ample Evidence" because it didn't fit with the melody.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:05:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of course (1.50 / 6)

one of that organization's board members is an African American woman that participates in African American student organizations. Is she a racist too?


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:28:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of course (1.50 / 4)

TR'ed for bringing race into a borderline civil discussion. It is completely unnecessary and entirely irrelevant.

Sorry you can't combat with facts and have to resort to low, slimy attacks such as that.


by Mokumi on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:40:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of course (2.00 / 0)

I'll be uprating that comment. This entire discussion is about allegations that this group and the Clinton folks are trying to disenfranchise black voters, and you TR someone for pointing out there are black members of the group? Insane and inappropriate.


Yes, I am a Clintonista for Obama.
by Denny Crane on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:51:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Awwww... (2.00 / 4)

um.... NO ONE KNEW WHO WAS DOING IT.

and yes it has been talked about, the national media has ignored it, but local presses and such have been following it and people have been trying to find out who was behind it and now we have.


Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:00:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Whatever. (2.00 / 3)

This is going to be news, and not the kind Hillary and her team need or want. I expect she will -- to use a favorite term of late -- "throw this organization under a bus."


by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:01:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's another board member (2.00 / 0)

Ashley James, Student Activist, Howard University Law School

Ashley James attends Howard University Law School. She is the treasurer of the Black Student Union and a member of the Society of Leaders Emerging. She is also an unmarried woman.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:16:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's another board member (2.00 / 2)

So... because she's black... you're trying to make a point here?


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:30:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's another board member (2.00 / 1)

race seems to be all that matters to obama supporters on the eve of primaries in states with large AA populations.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:39:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's another board member (2.00 / 1)

Stunning logic. Kudos to you, sir. You're a prime example of why Clinton is doing so well.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:48:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Another Board Member: (none / 0)

Ashley James, Student Activist, Howard University Law School

Ashley James attends Howard University Law School. She is the treasurer of the Black Student Union and a member of the Society of Leaders Emerging. She is also an unmarried woman.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:18:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

John Podesta!! (2.00 / 1)

Verrrrrrry interesting.


overthrow the government~participate
by missliberties on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:45:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I got new for you, owl... (2.00 / 4)

Um, WVWV admitted they placed the calls.


by Adam B on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:55:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I got new for you, owl... (2.00 / 2)

When found out, they admitted.

There was nothing in the calls taking credit.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:06:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Where does it say this is intended... (none / 0)

as "an organized effort to disenfranchise African-American voters"?


by CoyoteCreek on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:21:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where does it say this is intended... (2.00 / 3)

Good point. Since the Obama campaign never admitted to the race baiting you claim they've partaken in, by your logic they've never done it. Congratulations.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:31:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

About that SC memo???? (none / 0)


by CoyoteCreek on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:32:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: About that SC memo???? (none / 0)

About anything. Heck, as long as nobody admits to it, they've never guilty. Right?


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:40:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Disenfranchise how? (2.00 / 1)

Please explain.  The deadline for registering to vote in NC has already passed.


by Trickster on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:25:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disenfranchise how? (2.00 / 4)

To confuse people into thinking they have to wait until they get the packet to vote, or they can't vote without getting it, or something similar.

We've seen voters can be discouraged and confused by chads on a ballot, so anything like this could contribute.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:34:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Confused? (2.00 / 1)

That's the point.


overthrow the government~participate
by missliberties on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:46:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disenfranchise how? (none / 0)

Not for the general election in November.

Anyone who thinks voter registration only happens a few days (or weeks) prior to an election hasn't been around politics very long.


by TxKat on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 02:02:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disenfranchise how? (none / 0)

What about Same-day registration?  Laws change all the time, and most people don't keep up with them very well.  We can't assume perfect knowledge.


Donate to Obama, Today!
by freedom78 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 03:08:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disenfranchise how? (none / 0)

That too..... but it doesn't negate the point that groups do voter registration drives all year round.

Targeting what I assume are Democratic voting areas to register voters isn't nefarious.  It isn't "voter suppression" either.  

Obviously the people screaming have never been around REAL voter suppression.  

Like

Texas Rangers doing drivers license checks on the only road into or out of a polling place in a minority area or cops on the clock parking their vehicles 3 deep at polling places at the 5th ward in Houston.  


by TxKat on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 03:40:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disenfranchise how? (2.00 / 1)

I would agree that this isn't as nefarious as the examples you give, but intentionally giving out erroneous information right before an election...well, there aren't too many good reasons for that.  

The Supremely Idiotic Court just legalized my own states voter suppression (Photo IDs) measure, so I feel comfortable in saying that voter suppression can come in many guises, including the cloak of legality, and can affect the process in varying degrees.  

I WOULD hesitate before pinning this on the Clinton camp in any way, but that it is taking place at all is troubling to me.


Donate to Obama, Today!
by freedom78 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 03:50:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disenfranchise how? (none / 0)

Yeah, not well-timed maybe, but definitely not REAL voter suppression.  The best I can say about their timing is that it's likely a 'hot' time to recruit new voters when the amount of press about politics is high.

It's always been easier to register voters when "politics" is in the news -- regardless of if it's for the current election or a future election.

Texas has had voter ID requirements like Indiana's for almost 4 years.  So far, even here, there haven't been any major abuses nor have there been any swath of voters disenfranchised.  I admit that's surprised me.


by TxKat on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 05:20:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: anything to distract (2.00 / 2)

Yes, there is a recording of the calls.  You'd have known that if you had bothered to check.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:47:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: anything to distract (2.00 / 1)

awww the whole kos crew is out for this one. was there a meeting this morning to push this story and blame it in the clintons? they are big ol' racists ya know! anyone that doesn't support obama is a racist!


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:51:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: anything to distract (2.00 / 3)

Right, and everyone not supporting hillary is a sexist misogynist.  


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Bill Clinton
by venician on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Please don't (2.00 / 4)

point out the double standard.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:12:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: anything to distract (2.00 / 3)

besides the people who made them ALREADY admitting that they they are responsible for the robo calls, yes there is audio of the calls

http://www.democracy-nc.org/nc/spprncall .wav


Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:50:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"no actual affiliation"? (2.00 / 6)

Some have also questioned the ties between Women's Voices operatives and Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton. Gardner, for example, contributed $2,500 to Clinton's HILLPAC on May 4, 2006, and in March 2005 she donated a total of $4,200 to Clinton, according to The Center for Responsive Politics' OpenSecrets.org. She has not contributed to the Obama campaign, according to the database.

Women's Voices Executive Director Joe Goode worked for Bill Clinton's election campaign in 1992 as a pollster; the group's website says he was intimately involved in "development and implementation of all polling and focus groups done for the presidential primary and general election campaigns" for Clinton.

Women's Voices board member John Podesta, former Chief of Staff for President Bill Clinton, donated $2,300 to Hillary Clinton on April 19, 2007, according to OpenSecrets.org.

Also, Hillary's CTO also handles the donation processing for WVWV.

I was a huge fan of WVWV -- their work in 2006 was important and helped us win races.  This is stunning.


by Adam B on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:51:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If we can claim (2.00 / 3)

Ayers to be "affiliated" with Obama, I think we can claim WVWV to be "affiliated" with Clinton.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:02:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "no actual affiliation"? (none / 0)

Here's someone else on the board that you neglected to mention

Ashley James, Student Activist, Howard University Law School

Ashley James attends Howard University Law School. She is the treasurer of the Black Student Union and a member of the Society of Leaders Emerging. She is also an unmarried woman.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:17:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "no actual affiliation"? (2.00 / 2)

Another episode in Adam abandoning whatever integrity he had.

You know the work WVWV did in 2006 and yet you run with the worst interpretation of this story merely because they are registering women and therefore help Hillary Clinton. You know that just like Obama they are registering likely Democrats for the general, you know that this will help our nominee regardless of who it is, and yet you jump on Bob Johnson's bandwagon without a care for the damage he is doing to Democratic voter registration efforts. Anything to hurt Hillary Clinton, no matter how specious or self-destructive.

To me, that is stunning.


by souvarine on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:25:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "no actual affiliation"? (2.00 / 2)

Uh huh. Pot, kettle. I guess you're not concerned about the Clinton supporters' exhibiting poor behavior and bashing Obama and his supporters nonstop. That's a-okay.

Nonetheless, you're saying if it benefits us in the general, why, it's okay! Surpress the vote now, no problem, eh?


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:36:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh. (2.00 / 2)

Give me the best interpretation for having a consistent pattern of targetting (male) voters in states after their primary registration deadlines have passed and before the primaries themselves.


by Adam B on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:42:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: anything to distract (2.00 / 5)

Let's see:

1. Yes, there are recordings.  And it's been on the news already in NC.

2. Maggie Williams is on their advisory board.  That is an indisputable affiliation to Hillary Clinton.  PLUS...

3. John Podesta, one of their board members, used to work for Bill Clinton.  AND...

4. Joe Goode, their executive director, worked for Bill Clinton's 1992 campaign.

5. It's not just NC.  It's a whole slew of states: Virginia, Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida, Louisiana, Kentucky, Ohio and Arkansas.

To me, the single most damning thing on this list is the presence of Maggie Williams.


by writerswrite on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:12:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: anything to distract (none / 0)

You forgot their President, Page Gardner, and her own ties to Hillary:

Philadelphia Inquirer
October 28, 1992

IN YEAR OF THE WOMAN, MORE WOMEN GIVING TIME, MONEY THE CANDIDATES ARE THE STARS. IN THE TRENCHES ARE COUNTLESS OTHER WOMEN, HELPING CANDIDATES OF BOTH SEXES.

Author: Jodi Enda, INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

Edition: FINAL
Section: LOCAL
Page: A10

Relevant passage:

Moved to action by the recession, abortion rulings and, of course, Anita Hill, women are devoting their time and money to candidates like never before, according to campaign officials and the leaders of women's political groups.

"Women are saying, 'Enough already,' " said Page Gardner, national women's vote director for Clinton.

They have moved in record numbers into vital areas traditionally dominated by men, such as planning and fund-raising.

"Anger is a great motivator," Gardner said. "George Bush provided a lot of motivation."


by Sharoney on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:43:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: anything to distract (2.00 / 1)

Is there a recording of these calls to prove the allegations being made?

Um.... several, actuallly.

. Also, many who have received the calls -- like Kevin Farmer in Durham, who made a tape of the call that is available here -- are already registered. The call's suggestion that they're not registered has caused widespread confusion and drawn hundreds of complaints, including many from African-American voters who received the calls.

Do you people read diaries, much less links?


by BlueinColorado on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:37:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: anything to distract (2.00 / 1)

Yeah there are recordings.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:47:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Tie that in (1.83 / 6)

to the contention that a Hillary backer organized Jeremiah Wright's appearance at the National Press Club, and you have to wonder about the ethics of this campaign.

Wouldn't it have been awesome if Hillary had shown such a fighting spirit during the Bush years, against Bush, as she's now deploying against a Democrat who's getting in her way?

Is this what we want in the White House for four years?


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:47:06 PM EST

Re: Tie that in (2.00 / 2)

lay off that Kool-aid will ya! and stop smearing people without proof. for someone so intellectually challeneged and lacking honest rational thought here is the full story of Wright at NPC:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcal derone/0408/Press_Club_President_respond s_Reynolds_pitched_Rev_Wright_two_years_ ago.html

National Press Club president Sylvia Smith responded today to a Daily News article reporting that club member Barbara Reynolds, a Hillary Clinton supporter, organized yesterday's breakfast talk with Dr. Jeremiah Wright Jr.

Smith said by phone this morning that she still doesn't know if Reynolds supports Clinton, and doesn't care either way.

"Reverend Wright is newsworthy, period," Smith said. "

http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcal derone/0408/Press_Clubs_Reynolds_Im_not_ a_Clinton_supporter.html

As I reported earlier, Reynolds had pitched the idea two years ago to have Wright speak at a club luncheon, but the speakers' committee did not go forward with the idea. In June 2007, Reynolds helped bring Wright to the club for a panel discussion that was no sponsored by the NPC.

So it seems incorrect to say that Reynolds offered to help bring Wright to the club solely because of the current primary race. She's a Howard University professor of divinity, ordained minister, and knows Wright personally. And she's been involved with putting on Wright events, with other church leaders, in the past.

p.s. not that any of the above really matters because people like you will still spew hatred and dishonest lies come what may.


by tarheel74 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:59:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sure. (2.00 / 2)

National Press Club president Sylvia Smith responded today to a Daily News article reporting that club member Barbara Reynolds, a Hillary Clinton supporter, organized yesterday's breakfast talk with Dr. Jeremiah Wright Jr.

Clearly disproves that Reynolds is a Clinton backer.

And I'm sure it was just an inconvenient accident that she gave Wright his first big media platform after Obama's speech. By the standards I see set by Clinton backers, that doesn't quite add up.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:05:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tie that in (none / 0)

Hey, thanks for dehumanizing us once again, Tarheel. Instead of making a valid point with the things you brought up- even if you disagree with it, this is something we certainly have a right to be concerned with, and you have a right to address- you decided, eh, why not insult Obama supporters while you're at it! Yay!


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:39:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL (2.00 / 0)

Wright is now 'controlled' by Hillary?

Now I've heard just about everything.

Literally.

Everything.

Must be Obama's "kitchen sink" strategery.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:04:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL (2.00 / 2)

Re-read what I actually wrote. If you can't make an argument without distorting what someone says, that kinda invalidates what you're trying to get across.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:07:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL (none / 0)

No, I read what you wrote.  I can also read between the lines, and conclude just what your implication was: that Hillary was somehow responsible either thru a surrogate or personally for Wright's appearance that has now (apparently) come to harm Obama (causing a reversal and denuciation).

It's a predictable hue and cry from the Obama supporters when something doesn't go well for him: either it's somehow a plot concocted and controlled by Hillary, or it's 'racist' issues, also somehow promoted or initiated by Hillary.

Apparently there is no responsibility at all left to anything he does.  As with Tracy Ullman's recent parody of Suzanne Summers, perhaps he can learn how to market his own poop, I know there would be buyers.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 05:10:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Damn, Hillary is good. She's also (none / 0)

a ventriloquist and put all of the wrong words in Wright's mouth.


by CoyoteCreek on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:24:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton backers behind deceptive robo-calls ai (2.00 / 4)

they aren't actually clinton backers, they are ex-clinton aides who are obviously trying to help Clinton win,

yes its done FOR Hillary but I doubt she ...

you know what no, why should I waste my time putting this in context, especially when MyDD HRC supporters would rather rip their eyes out then call out their fellow supporters when the post misleading or wrong diaries (cept for Hillaryfor2008, kudos)


Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:47:50 PM EST

John Podesta (1.66 / 3)

... is on their board.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:51:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Podesta (1.00 / 1)

So is she:

Ashley James, Student Activist, Howard University Law School

Ashley James attends Howard University Law School. She is the treasurer of the Black Student Union and a member of the Society of Leaders Emerging. She is also an unmarried woman.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:18:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton backers behind deceptive robo-calls ai (none / 0)

Really.  Maggie Williams isn't currently a Clinton employee?  So she's managing Clinton's campaign for free, is she?


by writerswrite on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:16:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How is Maggie Williams connected to this? (2.00 / 1)

I don't see her name anywhere.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:18:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

former board member. nt (none / 0)


by Adam B on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:23:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How is Maggie Williams connected to this? (2.00 / 1)

She's part of the Clinton-connected 527 that's affiliated with WVWV, per Indiana Democrat's comment on the original diary:

Leadership Team
Page S. Gardner, Founder and President, WVWV
Joe Goode, Executive Director, WVWV
Ruth Ferguson, Chief Finance Officer, WVWV
Nancy McDonald, Resource Development Director, WVWV
Hal Malchow, President, MSHC Partners
Pat Griffin, Griffin Williams Critical Point Management
Maggie Williams, Griffin Williams Critical Point Management

Directors
Page S. Gardner, Founder and President, WVWV
Ashley James, Student Activist, De Paul University
Michael Lux, President, American Family Voices
Mimi Mager, Partner, Heidepriem & Mager
John Podesta, President and CEO, Center for American Progress
Margaret Rheinstein, Community Activist

Advisory Board
Chair - Barbara Lee, RW
Patricia Bauman
Heather Booth
Chris Desser
Anna Greenberg
Anne Hess
Richard Plepler
Ruth Skovron
Gloria Steinem
WVWV Legal Counsel

Holly Schadler, Lichtman, Trister & Ross, PLLC


by writerswrite on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:24:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How is Maggie Williams connected to this? (1.00 / 1)

And one of those board members is an African American student that is also on the board of an African American student group!


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:29:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You know... (2.00 / 2)

...as we've relentlessly been told this season, Clinton does have some African-American backers. Now, obviously, we can't impute anything about this young woman's views, but it's ludicrous to say that her race precludes her from doing something that will unquestionably benefit Clinton. Stephanie Tubbs-Jones, for example, was an incredibly effective advocate for Clinton.

And if we're at the point where a Democratic organization engages in voter suppression - which should outrage all of us, I'd suggest - we shouldn't be shocked that a young black woman is involved with that organization. Once we've crossed the Rubicon on these kinds of sleaze tactics, and we have, nothing should surprise us.

Feel free, by the way, to reject and denounce what's going on here any moment now.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 02:06:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton backers behind deceptive robo-calls ai (2.00 / 2)

From my reading the calls are well-intentioned but quite inept....hell well after registration deadline my girlfriend was asked here in Chapel Hill by Obama volunteers if she would like to register and vote early, so this story is nothing but innuendo and that is what the Obama campaign and it's supporters are good at.


by tarheel74 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:48:38 PM EST

Go read the story. (2.00 / 5)

They pulled the same crap in multiple states. The Virginia State Police investigated the calls. This is a big story, whether you like it or not.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:50:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Go read the story. (none / 0)

and what became of this investigation? your proof? I don't think you want to get into the FRAUD the that Obama campaign committed in causes in places like El Paso.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:53:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Present Proof or stop lying (none / 0)

I've been seeing you saying this b.s. about el paso caucus time and time again.  Every time your asked to produce proof, you somehow magically disappear.

Your claims of illegality and supposed benefit of said illegality further makes no sense when we're talking about El Paso.  Hillary crushed in El Paso: 75-25.  Now, do I believe that you may be met some rude Obama supporters?  Yeah.  But there are near 15 million of us; we can't all be angels.  So the question now is: are you lying out your ass, completely full of shit or just partially full of shit?


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 06:03:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton backers behind deceptive robo-calls ai (2.00 / 5)

sure maybe if it were one state

but many the add these to the diary

In Arizona last November, election officials were "inundated with complaints" after Women's Voices sent a mailing erroneously claiming that recipients were "required" to mail back an enclosed voter registration form. Many who received the mailing were already registered; the mailing also gave the wrong registration date. Secretary of State Jan Brewer denounced the group's tactics as "misleading and deceptive." A similar mailing in Colorado that month "[drew] fire and caused confusion," according to a state press release.

* In Wisconsin, state officials singled out Women's Voices for misleading and possibly disenfranchising voters, stating in a press release [PDF]: "One group in particular -- Women's Voices. Women Vote, of Washington, D.C. -- apparently ignored or disregarded state deadlines in seeking to register voters," sending in registrations past the January 30 deadline and causing "hundreds of Wisconsin voters who think they registered in advance" to actually not be.

* Michigan officials ended up "fielding tons of calls from confused voters" after Women's Voices did a February mailing to "380,000 unmarried women" -- including numerous deceased voters and even more that were already registered. Sarah Johnson of Women's Voices "seemed confused by the confusion," the Lansing State Journal reported.

* A 1.5 million-piece Women's Voices mailing in Florida falsely stated: "To comply with state voting requirements, please return the enclosed application." Pasco County's elections supervisor called it "disingenuous"; another said it created "a lot of unnecessary panic on behalf of the voters," reported local newspapers. Sarah Johnson of Women's Voice said, "I'm sorry to hear that."

* By March, Women's Voices was backing off the erroneous "registration is required" language, but there were still problems. For example, a mailing in Arkansas allowed that "registering to vote is voluntary," but a clerk in Washington County reported that "the majority [of forms] sent back to the county come from registered voters, causing needless labor for office employees."

boy they sure seem to have alot of well-intentioned but quite inept accidents huh?


Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:51:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton backers behind deceptive robo-calls ai (none / 0)

ohhhh.... a memo from the obama campaign!


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:53:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton backers behind deceptive robo-calls ai (2.00 / 4)

If that's what you need to feel good. But I already gave you the link to the Institute. They're not the Obama campaign by any stretch.

Seeing as they were founded when he was a teenager.

Ya know.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:07:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton backers behind deceptive robo-calls ai (none / 0)

Had enough from you, calling you out:
http://press.princeton.edu/video/frankfu rt/Q5lan.mov

Capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my uncle Jack off a horse..." and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse..."
by igottheblues on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 06:57:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You missed a part of it. (2.00 / 5)

The call is deceptive because the deadline has already passed for mail-in registrations for North Carolina's May 6 primary. Also, many who have received the calls -- like Kevin Farmer in Durham, who made a tape of the call that is available here -- are already registered. The call's suggestion that they're not registered has caused widespread confusion and drawn hundreds of complaints, including many from African-American voters who received the calls.

The calls are also probably illegal. Farmer and others have told Facing South the calls use a blocked phone number and provided no contact information -- a violation of North Carolina rules regulating "robo-calls" (N.C. General Statute 163-104(b)(1)c). N.C. Attorney General Roy Cooper further stated in a recent memo that the identifying information must be clear enough to allow the recipient to "complain or seek redress" -- something not included in the calls.

It is also a Class I felony in North Carolina "to misrepresent the law to the public through mass mailing or any other means of communication where the intent and the effect is to intimidate or discourage potential voters from exercising their lawful right to vote."

This is classic voter suppression, just as in Florida in 2000 or in Ohio in 2004.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:53:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You missed a part of it. (none / 0)

In case you have missed what I said the Obama campaign here in NC are registering voters and scheduling early voters drives long after the deadline has passed...so get off you high horse.


by tarheel74 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:03:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You missed a part of it. (2.00 / 2)


   Yes Tarheel....did you not see his announcement of the voter registration push for the general election?

  Registering voters is one thing. They can't vote until November if they registered past the deadline.

  Unless of course, you are alleging that Obama somehow sneaks them in the back door.


by southernman on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:05:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You missed a part of it. (none / 0)

If my girlfriend was asked to register and vote in the primary after the registration deadline I am sure they were planning something...my guess is in NC people can register and and cast absentee ballots till the last Saturday before the primary and all campaigns are trying to do that. So nothing lillegal here but just innuendos.


by tarheel74 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:16:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You missed a part of it. (2.00 / 4)


   It is illegal if you are deliberately creating confusion...such as posing that you are an election authority, saying you can't vote until a packet is mailed to you and the packet never shows.

  That's voter fraud. That's election tampering. That is illegal. And that is what is allegdly going on.


by southernman on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:28:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Obama campaign registering voters" (2.00 / 2)

Of course. For the general.

Not everyone has forgotten that after the primary comes the general election, you know. Is there anything you can't turn into an anti-Obama talking point?


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:09:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You missed a part of it. (2.00 / 1)

North Carolina has One Stop Voting, where people can register and vote at the same time at the early voting sites between 19 and 3 days prior to the election.


by CA Pol Junkie on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 02:10:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

YES. BY EXAMPLE OBAMA CAMP KEEPS (2.00 / 1)

playing the race card.

How dare you ALWAYS play the race card.  You couldn't help youself, too tempting, huh?

AS YOU WROTE:
"Washington D.C. interest group, Women's Voices. Women Vote. is the organization behind deceptive robo-calls in North Carolina designed to confuse, and, ultimately, disenfranchise, African-American voters."

No where in the ARTICLE does it claim African Americans voters.

It says  

" Women's Voices Women Vote, a D.C.-based nonprofit which aims to boost voting among "unmarried women voters."

I know this is your entire meme, just  post the most outrageous claims, names and accusations, but even you have to admit this card and claim has no place and I recommend you do the right thing and delete this garbage.


by LindaSFNM on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:52:21 PM EST

Eh. (2.00 / 5)

The call's suggestion that they're not registered has caused widespread confusion and drawn hundreds of complaints, including many from African-American voters who received the calls.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:54:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eh. (none / 0)

I do hope you consider African Americans part of voter or if they are women, women voters.


by LindaSFNM on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:44:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: YES. BY EXAMPLE OBAMA CAMP KEEPS (2.00 / 5)

Read. The. Article.

It's very disgusting, in an informative sort of way.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:55:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: YES. BY EXAMPLE OBAMA CAMP KEEPS (1.75 / 4)

It has been reported that AA voters are the ones primarily rec'ving the calls in North Carolina.

But, thanks for your indignant bullshit, it really added to the conversation


by Cycloptichorn on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:55:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: YES. BY EXAMPLE OBAMA CAMP KEEPS (none / 0)

agreed, Linda, I am calling you out, too:
http://press.princeton.edu/video/frankfu rt/Q5lan.mov

Capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my uncle Jack off a horse..." and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse..."
by igottheblues on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:02:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, it mentions African-American voters, Linda. (2.00 / 3)

You need to read more carefully. From the article:

First, a quick recap: As we covered yesterday, N.C. residents have reported receiving peculiar automated calls from someone claiming to be "Lamont Williams." The caller says that a "voter registration packet" is coming in the mail, and the recipient can sign it and mail it back to be registered to vote. No other information is provided.

The call is deceptive because the deadline has already passed for mail-in registrations for North Carolina's May 6 primary. Also, many who have received the calls -- like Kevin Farmer in Durham, who made a tape of the call that is available here -- are already registered. The call's suggestion that they're not registered has caused widespread confusion and drawn hundreds of complaints, including many from African-American voters who received the calls.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:57:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Further down in the story: (2.00 / 5)

The calls have been denounced by the N.C. State Board of Elections, as well as by voter advocacy groups including Democracy North Carolina, which called them "another in a long line of deceptive practices used in North Carolina and elsewhere that particularly target African-American voters."


by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:58:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: YES. BY EXAMPLE OBAMA CAMP KEEPS (2.00 / 5)


   Linda...can you not read? Or is that your attention is just short?

  Read the whole article.


by southernman on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:03:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What those people are doing is disgraceful. (