Yes, I'm really a democrat

As Senator Obama continues to moderate his positions on many issues:

Today's installment is the declaration that "mental health" issues should not be used in the "health exceptions" to late-term abortions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires 20080703/obama-abortion/http://www.huff ingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20080703/obama -abortion

BTW:  This is a rare example where I have disagreed with Obama's move to the center.   Also, with the talk yesterday about the war and maybe curtailing his withdrawal strategy, the Senator may want to take a break from this strategy for awhile.

But anyway,...

I realize Senator Obama is no where near the line, but
I got to thinking, at what point am I or anyone no longer a Democrat to the extreme ideologues here at mydd?
---------------------
Here's my list of important issues and what people generally consider them to represent on the political spectrum:

1.  abortion rights:      far left
 I support without qualification

2.  gun control:          far left
 I support strict gun licensing, registration and ability of govts to enact strict gun control where it makes sense.  Sometimes the overall safety of the community can be improved with gun control bans even though it harms an individual's personal right to protect themselves in particular situations.

3.  death penalty:        moderate right
Against it in the current system where the justice system is clearly broken, and not fair.   But would support a well-defined system that worked both in terms of correct id and quick resolutions.

4.   education:    extreme right wing
totally against our centrally planned public school systems and favor numerous choices including vouchers, charter schools, home schools, church schools, and ensuring parents control as much as possible rather than a govt. board

5.   trade:   moderate left wing
Support fair trade that includes labor and environmental standards that seek to raise the standards, spread the prosperity and prevent a race downward even though this would raise prices and lower our projected standard of living.

6.  tort reform:  moderate right wing
Support reform that protects companies and individuals who are making a good-faith effort at their jobs from being sued when something goes wrong. So for instance, if a doctor does everything they can, yet something happens to the patient, the standard to sue should be whether they knowingly did something wrong.  This goes also for medicines that wind up having bad side effects.  As long as there wasn't any fraud or deception, there shouldn't be any lawsuits.

7.  taxes:      

I think taxes should be kept as low as possible and replaced with more progressive ways to collect revenue that is needed. We can use auctions, lotteries, and other ways that involve people volunteering their funds rather than forcing them to pay.  For instance, the Super Bowl sells out every year, the govt. could auction off special tickets and use that money for tax revenue.

I reject the notion that people who make more money should pay a higher percentage of taxes.  The key should be everyone shouldering the benefits they receive from society.

8.   gay rights:  extreme right wing

I'm in support of traditional moral values, and believe we as a society need to promote strong healthy normal marriage, strong role models and a civil society on t.v., and good values throughout society.

I am in general against the gay rights lobby except when they talk about protecting people from violence and discrimination in the workplace.  They are right in those cases.

9.   social security:    right wing

I support every American have a personal account that can be passed on to the next generation.  It should include a guaranteed part that is used for the individual and than passed on to the next generation, and a part that can be invested in numerous legitimate vehicles.

I believe social security should continue to be mandatory, but updated to fit a more modern world.

10.  foreign policy:   moderate left

I believe in having a big military budget that helps us maintain the strongest military on earth.  We should use it to promote good around the world, but mainly to find adversaries before they find us.  We need to be realistic about what we get into in terms of the longer term implications of what we do.  I supported Afganistan, against Iraq, against Iran.  All, based on what was/is in our best interests.

My point is there are a few issues that seem to be litmus test:

pro choice
gay rights
against vouchers

while others aren't

gun control
faith based policies
supporting a strong military
death penality

I think both parties need to included honest people who generally agree with them.  Since neither side has a coherent philosophy, I don't see how more people here and elsewhere aren't constantly challenge our party leaders.  

Our failure to do so harms us all as a nation and I hope we start taking inventory of our positions and advocating for them regardless of who we take on as allies on a particular issue.

I am a proud democrat who is fighting for change in my party.



Display:


no you are not! partisan-lover. (2.00 / 1)

purity dictates that you not dare to questioning the nominee!!!!

now until i deem you worthy of being a real democrat - you are a troll.

just kidding.  quick question - why is liberal a bad word in the US? in canada we have a LIberal party so i find this very odd.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:03:39 PM EST

Because the GOP (2.00 / 4)

did its utmost to turn the word "liberal" into something sinister and radical. And it worked -- the masses listened.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:06:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because the GOP (2.00 / 1)

Because we allowed our most radical elements to also be the loudest elements, thus facilitating the ease with which 'liberal' became a negative word.


I'm for a timeline on Iraq, public funding of elections, women's reproductive rights, gun restrictions and universal suffrage. So why should I vote for Obama?
by William Cooper on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 06:47:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because the GOP (none / 0)

And so many people ran away from the label.  


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 12:13:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because the GOP (none / 0)

GOP did the same thing to Hillary Clinton, i.e. turned her into "something sinister"; the GOP was so successful, that the lefties themselves bought into it and promoted it all through the 08 primary season.


by moevaughn on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:10:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I wouldn't use the word "lefties" (none / 0)

because technically I'm a leftie... however, I agree with your larger point.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:12:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wouldn't use the word "lefties" (none / 0)

technically, I'm a leftie too -- I don't see anything wrong with the word itself.  What's shocking to me is  how so many (so-called?) lefties fell for the right-wing smear of Hillary -- and then used it themselves in the Dem primary.  


by moevaughn on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:31:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I know, it hurt a lot more (none / 0)

coming from the Left than it did from the Right.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:49:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I know, it hurt a lot more (none / 0)

btw, did you see this Guardian article from a couple days ago on same subject:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/ 2008/jul/01/hillaryclinton.uselections20 08

How a bitter primary campaign saw the right's discredited smears gleefully revived and reused by the left...


by moevaughn on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 05:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, I hadn't read it. (none / 0)

Ugh, so disturbing.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:45:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your only policy position that (2.00 / 6)

I absolutely cannot handle or justify is your position on gay rights. I don't understand (or particularly respect) people who are opposed to gay rights.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:07:45 PM EST

seriously. (2.00 / 6)

i cannot believe that in the year 2008, this is a concern for people.  whom one chooses in their love lives is none of my business.  whether it be gay or otherwise.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:11:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Homophobes are just (2.00 / 5)

uncomfortable with their own sexuality. They're cowards, in every sense of the word.

Democrat who believes only in "traditional family values" = homophobic GOP concern troll.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:13:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

traditional family values??? (2.00 / 5)

values - yes!  

traditional values - what the hell does that even mean?  that the daddy goes to work in his ford and the mommy tends to the kitchen and kids?


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:18:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Traditional GOP family values" (2.00 / 5)


  • Marriage between one man and one woman.
  • Man works to provide for his family.
  • Woman is barefoot and pregnant at least 90% of the time.
  • Woman bakes several pies a week (no cooking with shoes on, of course).
  • Man doesn't beat his wife on Sundays (Mon-Sat beatings are okay).
  • Man eyes his male boss lustfully but does nothing about it.
  • Man joins in the effort to oppress homosexuals because it makes him feel better about himself for being too afraid to pursue what he really desires.

Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:24:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Traditional GOP family values" (none / 0)

Don't forget the other "traditional" family values:
 - abuse
 - alcoholism and
 - incest
by Lacy Davenport on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:31:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That last one is just (none / 0)

a traditional Southern value. I should know, I've lived down here all my life.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:53:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: traditional family values??? (2.00 / 2)

Sounds like the same type of Democrats who think that "women should know thier place".

Oh wait, those Democrats don't exist.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:39:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: traditional family values??? (2.00 / 2)

Again, I have to disagree.
Unfortunate as it is....there are most certainly Democrats who think that 'women should know their place'.
Cretins nonetheless.
They just happen to be Democratic cretins.
by Kysen on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 11:04:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobes are just (2.00 / 4)

I actually disagree with you here, sricki.
I believe that one can be a Democrat and not hold all the beliefs of the Platform.

I know o'plenty Democrats who are racists, homophobes and/or Bible Thumpers to the nth degree. Just as I know Republicans who are Pro-Choice, Pro-Gun Control and anti-Bible Thumping.

There are folks from all walks in both Parties.

Now, that having been said.....I believe that said racists, homophobes and other such cretins are, well, cretins....they just might happen to be Democratic cretins.


by Kysen on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:26:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're right, yellowdem may vote (2.00 / 5)

Democratic. But gay rights is a pretty bad issue to have a GOP mindset on... Really nauseating.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:29:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're right, yellowdem may vote (2.00 / 3)

yep - it is kinda gross.

even our PM (who is conservative) wouldn't dare reopen this issue.  


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:36:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're right, yellowdem may vote (1.00 / 2)

This is not the Gay Rights party.  People can have differing opinions without being homophobes, and your labelling them as such is very counterproductive.  But then, I've come to expect that from you.

I knew a man who explained his position on gay marriage thus:  Marriage is a hetero cultural institution.  Heteros have a right to preserve their culture just as gays, jews, blacks, women, communists, weedheads and sports-buffs do.

If gays want to have their own marriage this is fine, but they should give it a different name.  (Which is fine with me, as long as legally they are extended the same rights as heteros.)

Why can't gays, he posited, invent their own institution and have it adopted by the state?  Why must they insist on being allowed to infringe on a hetero cultural institution?

He had a point.  Heterosexuals invented a cultural institution which was adopted by the state.

Gays should do the same.

p.s.  Before you respond, consider that we have MANY exclusive institutions and legal rights extended to groups for various reasons, including race (indian casinos) sex (womens toilets, no men allowed) profession (unions, etc) and the like.


I'm for a timeline on Iraq, public funding of elections, women's reproductive rights, gun restrictions and universal suffrage. So why should I vote for Obama?
by William Cooper on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:00:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're right, yellowdem may vote (1.00 / 2)

"But then, I've come to expect that from you."

That comment was for sricki, not canadian gal.


I'm for a timeline on Iraq, public funding of elections, women's reproductive rights, gun restrictions and universal suffrage. So why should I vote for Obama?
by William Cooper on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:01:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

its kind of a mind-f%$k isn't it? (2.00 / 2)

partisanship i mean.  in canada, its less so since MP's have to vote along party lines.  but there are so many more shades of grey in your system.

hawkish-liberals
conservative-doves

it really blows my mind sometimes.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:33:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobes are just (none / 0)

I know, and didn't we go over that issue with yellow in another one of his diaries, and yet he still wants to bring it up.


by venician on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:56:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He won't respond to us, though. (none / 0)

How many times have I asked him who is hurt by gay marriage? Never gotten an answer.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:01:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your only policy position that (none / 0)

It's not rational.  Don't try to understand it.  It will make your head spin.

My family changed because of me.  Logic wasn't involved.  Just personal experience.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 12:21:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, I'm really a democrat (2.00 / 4)

"8.   gay rights:  extreme right wing

I'm in support of traditional moral values, and believe we as a society need to promote strong healthy normal marriage, strong role models and a civil society on t.v., and good values throughout society.

I am in general against the gay rights lobby except when they talk about protecting people from violence and discrimination in the workplace.  They are right in those cases."

AHHH...gotta love the "homosexual values are bad values crowd". Hit the road, bigot. Homophobia is no more acceptable in mine or any true progressive's mind than racism or sexism.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:09:36 PM EST

Re: Yes, I'm really a democrat (2.00 / 1)

I'm in support of traditional moral values, and believe we as a society need to promote strong healthy normal marriage, strong role models and a civil society on t.v., and good values throughout society.

I don't understand your point. "Traditional moral values" usually means an opposition to gay rights and things like gay marriage. "Strong healthy normal marriage? Jeez. That's exactly what they said when they were arguing against inter-racial marriage. WTF?

On your user page it says that you yourself are gay. Do you not think that you are capable of having a strong healthy normal marriage?

Homophobia is no more acceptable in mine or any true progressive's mind than racism or sexism.

Then why do you think gays are not capable of a strong healthy normal marriage, strong role models, civil society, and good values?


by Mystylplx on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:47:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

myst - he was quoting the diarist. (2.00 / 1)


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:49:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lol. (2.00 / 3)

Ooops. I had a confused moment. I'm OK now.

(This happens to me a lot lately. I swear I'm getting senile and I'm only 40.)


by Mystylplx on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 11:02:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: myst - he was quoting the diarist. (2.00 / 3)

You know, I was in the supermarket the other day and a song comes on the 'piped in music system.' I know the song. I know the lyrics. I can sing along with it. But I can't for the life of me figure out who the artist is. It takes me a good two minutes to figure out it's a Madonna song.

Going senile. Seriously. Next I'll be hearing Beatles songs and thinking, "I know this group... but who is it?"


by Mystylplx on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 11:24:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

don't worry. (2.00 / 2)

im with ya - ive got baby brain.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 11:36:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, I'm really a democrat (2.00 / 1)


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:52:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry for the above reply :( (2.00 / 3)


by Mystylplx on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 11:04:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, I'm really a democrat (2.00 / 1)

You said it, zcflint. This person is a bigot. Perhaps Democrats can be bigots but no Democrat I know is one.

This character is as worthless as his diary. Troll doesn't even begin to define him/her.


by cuppajoe on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 12:49:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, I'm really a democrat (2.00 / 3)

You may be a Democrat...
but...
with #8 you prove yourself to be a Democrat with some seriously f'd up issues.

I'd say the same if you were a Dem who had voted Dem in every election since the 1960's....but were racist. Maybe a Dem....but a Dem with some seriously f'd up issues.

Or....maybe not 'issues'...perhaps only one f'd up issue...but, man, it's a doozy.

It's the 21st Century...you are welcome to join us at any time.


by Kysen on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:20:36 PM EST

Re: Yes, u are really a democrat? (none / 0)

10.  foreign policy:  (correction)right of center

I believe in having a big military budget that helps us maintain the strongest military on earth.  We should use it to promote good around the world, but mainly to find adversaries before they find us.  We need to be realistic about what we get into in terms of the longer term implications of what we do.  I supported Afganistan, against Iraq, against Iran.  All, based on what was/is in our best interests.


by GeeMan on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:35:16 PM EST

Re: Yes, u are really a democrat? (2.00 / 1)

The...

but mainly to find adversaries before they find us.

...means well right of center.


by Mystylplx on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:50:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, I'm really a democrat (2.00 / 1)

I disagree with you on a number of issues. Notably, I don't know why you would say that gay culture damages our collective morality more than women who are 7 months pregnant who decide that they want to abort without clear medical reason. At that point, I have no problem suggesting that a person should wait it out and put it up for adoption.

But I respect the hell out of you for being so honest. Kudos and much respect to you.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:56:07 PM EST

Re: Yes, I'm really a democrat (2.00 / 3)

well I disagree with you on 2 issues.

4. Education. our public schools are worth investing in. the sad fact is that we dont invest as much as we should. and studies show that most of america's under funded schools are inner city schools with a majority of minorities attending. I think we should at least make sure public schools are well funded before we start spending tax payer money on privately owned schools. if we invested more in public schools we would be able to raise their standards, possibly eliminating the need for students to go to private school in search for a better quality of education.

8. Gay rights. It is in your opinion whether gay marriage is right or wrong. gay rights are human rights.

kudos for sharing your views-


by alyssa chaos on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 11:33:04 PM EST

Re: Yes, I'm really a democrat (none / 0)

I am a proud democrat who is fighting for change in my party.

And, I will fight you every step of the way on many of these issues.

You are to the left of me on #1 & #2. We could probably come to a compromise on those. #3 I am against. I would rather see it abolished and strict, no parole life sentences replace it. #4 Completely against vouchers that could be used for any kind of religious affiliated school. I don't want my tax dollars going for religious indoctrination. #5 We are pretty much in agreement on trade. We also seem to agree with Obama on this issue. #6 I agree with Obama on this also. #7 No agreement here. I am for a progressive tax. Simplified tax code, yes. #8 Complete disagreement here and probably no room for compromise. Full and equal rights for all Americans. #9 No privatization of SS. That is a disaster waiting to happen. #10 You aren't moderate left on this issue. I'm probably closer to being moderate left. Strong military, yes. To the extent we have it now, no. The MIC has too much influence on our country. I'm with Eisenhower on this one. That's right, he was a Republican. An old-school, pre-Reagan Republican.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 12:27:20 AM EST

Re: Yes, I'm really a democrat (2.00 / 1)

Number 8 is a killer. I wish you were commenting you your own thread because I'd really like to know where this comes from. If you were pro-life as well I'd assume you had religious reasons and would have more respect. As it is it seems small and mean of you to judge so broadly and comment about something you obviously don't understand.

I guess I'm glad you're another democratic vote, but your views on gay rights are painful.


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 12:47:11 AM EST

Aren't we all being a little bit (none / 0)

too harsh on yellowdem here, especially those of us who supported Hillary in the primaries?  Don't you agree that many of those who voted for her overwhelmingly in West Virginia, Kentucky, Arkansas, and parts of Pennsylvania share yellowdem's views on #8?  The same question could be posed about the overwhelming African-American support that Obama received in the primary.

One of the best and worst things about this party is that it casts such a big tent.


by Blazers Edge on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:30:43 AM EST

I guess I shouldn't complain (2.00 / 1)

knowing your opposition to gay rights and all.

I am a strongly pro-life Democrat, but basically what I do is avoid the abortion issue on these blogs at all costs.

And seriously, if I wasn't compromising any of my principles, I wouldn't vote for any Democrat, even Obama after his newly discovered stance on late-term abortion today (which doesn't go far enough for me).

I have, and will, vote for someone who doesn't fit my critea on abortion. I will do it because he does on most everything else.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:43:20 AM EST

wow. (none / 0)

don't necessarily agree.  but mojo'ed for a thoughtful comment.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:56:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

on what (none / 0)

my views on abortion, or the fact that I compromise them to vote for the Democratic candidate for President?


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:12:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

what dont i agree with? (2.00 / 1)

a bit of both.  but one the best parts of mydd for me is when i read sincere thoughtful comments and diaries that make me think.  that was one of them.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:17:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I guess I shouldn't complain (none / 0)

To a certain degree, we all have to compromise.

I deeply respect your ability to see the big picture.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 12:41:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, I'm really a democrat (2.00 / 1)

I find it interesting that folks resort to negative attacks and name calling when they disagree with someone else's views.

I think it would be much more enlightening for all if we would allow all people to express themselves without fear of being tarred and feathered even if we do not agree with their views. That's the premise on which this country was built.


"The Bumble Bee flies because it thinks it can."
by LadyEagle on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:31:02 AM EST

Re: Yes, I'm really a democrat (2.00 / 1)

I appreciate the guts it takes to put all your views out there for public consumption, knowing that people tend to speak up more when they disagree and that you'll get some harsh commentary.

That said, your stance on taxes, particularly this

I reject the notion that people who make more money should pay a higher percentage of taxes.  

seems to make you very out of touch with a fundamental Democratic issue.  I'd argue that there's nothing more critical to the parties than their approaches to taxation, as it's the basis of their economic philosophy and of what government should accomplish.

I dunno.  If that was my view on taxes, I'd not feel at home in the Democratic Party, no matter what my other views happened to be.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:27:26 PM EST


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